The religious chat
Angry Chad first posted on this, so some high school principle goes on about how his school encourages belief in God. Not a bad concept, I am all for encouraging people. BUT there is a fine line between encourage and force. I am a believer, that is my personal business, I will on occasion chat to people God and his ways but I'm not gonna force them or tell them eternal damnation shall befall you if they don't agree with me. Believing in God as a mass movement is not believing in God that is pop culture. What gives one person the right to judge another person because of their faith? That in itself is unchristian.
50 Restless Natives:
I agree what gives ppl the right to play God???
In that case, what gives anyone the right to ever question anyone else in any other circumstance?
Why should religion get special treatment? Why should we not scrutinize it the way we scrutinize every other part of life? If a medical school student thinks that the best way to prevent a heart attack is to pray, should we let that person become a doctor?
People who claim to believe in magical beings should be made to verify their outrageous claims, or be ridiculed for them. Human kind is too intelligent, we have come too far, to hang on to these dangerous, centuries old superstitions.
Im really sorry to say but I agree with Angry 100%. Religion should get no special treatment. I personally believe that anyone with faith who has never challenged their religion is not faithful at all but ignorant and blind.
Ok. Mich, Firstly you are meant to spread the good news! chad, praying does bring healing. nic, to question your faith means you have no faith.
Dude religion is like a gaint shopping mall. ppl just go in and pick what works for them. sorry M but i agree with nic and the angry dude
I'm sorry why are you guys apologising to mich? she's not for religion she's for individualism! shopping mall? what stupid book did u pull that from?
hahaha, shopping mall, nice one.
Hetty: So you think that simply because we are born in to a religion we should accept it, point blank, never question, never ask. Fuck, jesus himself had questions and doubted at some point.
And you think we should constantly question, because it gives u some sense of freedom. staying away from the masses making up your own mind. and you walk around with your unbelief like a passport to a liberated way of thinking. wow how religious of u nic.
Touchy subject, I both sides have a valid arguement but i'm ill equiped to stand on either side. A few questions though, mich - individualism? pls explain. chad -you think religion should be declared null and void? nic - doubt, doubt and fall out of faith or seek answers in the faith? hetty - when do u decide to become a christian?
Hetty you have made a cardinal (excuse the pun) error in thinking that i am religious. I am not. At all. and I do think that constant question is good. Challenge your surrounding, the sky is blue, but do you see it that way. What's a life without personal influence. If you live with other people telling you what to eat, what it tastes like, when to shit then you'd be pissed off, but when it comes to religion it's ok to do that.
This topic is too extensive and diverse to debate, win or lose, there is no debate. It's a personal choice, a context and a preferance and I choose knowledge over ignorance.
Individualism, it was my personal decision to become a christain. Christianity is NOT a religion, not for me anyhow. it is a way of life a choice I made for myself. And I do question, there certain things that I don't agree with and I want to know more and I want answers, so i seek them. Religon should not be a bondage, and it is not a group thing. it's shouldn't be a mass movement. you stand alone, your choices your decision, hence not religon but a way of life. Some guy standing on a pulpit should not tell you what to do.
Nic : I was being scarastic.But again your agruement, is simply that you don't want to eb like sheep and follow.
Bobby : I've always been a christain.
Mich : Then how strong are you in your faith?
heya hetty, it's been a long time...
I question my faith, that does not mean I reject the faith or that I am weak in it. it just means, i am willing to find answers for things I don't understand or find fault with. No man should have the right to tell me what to do or not to do. that should be my decision, so if I mess up, I know to blame me.
The shopping mall thing is pretty funny huh? hehehehe..
Hetty: As to where I got it from. I am not sure if it's in a book, but you can ask Mich, she said it to me. oops, sorry M poched your line. ;)
Hetty: Once again you are possibly right. I am happy to admit that I do not want to be a sheep. I never have been a sheep and don't mind getting clost to Australians (As apposed to sheep).
It does concern me that there are people like you who seem to be happy to live without question, to be taught what you know already and learn from those who do not question, research or learn anything new either. Imagine you went to school and still learnt that world was flat becuase everyone was to shit scared to challenge the accepted norms? Wow wouldnt we look stupid... getting my metaphor there bud?
Nic: it's not about accpeting, it's about believing. I love my religion and it is not an individual thing. There is no I it's we. Partly why i'm also shocked at Mich's approach, at school we taught in the collective and this individualism stuff is rubbish. Nic, don't you think thta my not following, you are subcribing to the norm of the non-believers? Forgive me but isn't that some form of sheepery(that's not a word is it? Mich?).
Very interesting debate... So please can you all humour me for a moment.
Hetty: i'm confused.. how you believe and not accept? also, you've always been christain. So you ddin't make the decision?
Elle: Interesting apporach. But doesn't make u feel like u r on the fence?
Nic: What are your thoughts on Elle's approach? also don't you think you have no valid reason for not believing aside from teh sheep thing.
Elle: is there such a word as sheepery? hehehehe
PS: Hetty you went to Mary Mount?
Sheepery, I am not quite sure if it's a word. I'm gonna ask Jeeves. ;)
Nikki: I am not sitting on a fence.
Hetty: There are a ton of things they taught me at Mary Mount that I am very weary of! Also when judgement day comes... I am being judgeed not us
nikki: Very interesting and rational points. Good work. Lets put it this way: I have managed to review my options, my beliefs and my faiths. I made the CHOICE to walk away from religion becuase there are too many unanswered questions. Too much that is left to "Just have faith" and not enough that is telling my why, where, how, when. there are too many paradoxes and too much mystery and enigma surrounding it all. Religion is only a recent creation. +-2000 years old, and in +- 2000 years it might be gone. These are my reasons. I did not flakely walk away from religion it was a long and arduous process that I am happy with. And let's be honest, I was not born in to my choice, I made it by myself. Hetty, you have made no choices, you have challenged nothing and YOU are the sheep my friend. do not try and turn the argument around to push your fears and insecurities on to others. This is a personal choice and I do not condemn you for it. To each his/her own.
With regard to Elle's comments, I think that if anyone is going to choose religion, Elle's approach is the best approach: Going to church doesnt make you a christian, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. Religion is a personal choice, a personal thing not a mass movement. Mob mentality is bad in any context, religion is no exception.
I grew up in my faith, and I have no reason to doubt it. it's as simple as that.
But hetty don't you think that is bondage??? I for one I like the choice.
sheep
lol!!! that is a bit below the belt nic... I think dear hetty is feeling a little out numbered.
funny... I stand by what I say, non-comformity is a a form of conformity.
come now hetty, you gotta admit there some good points here.
"chad -you think religion should be declared null and void?"
Perhaps. What I'm saying is that everything should be subject to the same scrutiny, no special considerations given because something is supposedly "sacred* or *holy*. In fact, it seems to me that these things which are supposedly sacred or holy should be scrutinized more so, because of their importance. If a belief is indeed worthy of being placed on a pedestal of some sort, it should have no trouble at all passing some basic tests of reason and logic.
If there is a god, then he/she/it gave humans the ability to think critically for a reason.
Hetty, a lot of people in the past thought slavery was ok, because they were taught that it was from a very early age, and never bothered to question it. As humans, it's our ability to question that defines us. Deny that, and you're nothing more than a dumb animal, following the instinctual patterns of your predecessors.
yes... Nikki and Nic and their non-sheepery ways. which is just a ploy for some sense of individualism. oh please
PS: You are not related are you?
No we are not related... I am related to Elle, actually!
Angry chad:good points... I think it should be an individual choice. Don't you?
reliogion is not bondage!!!!!
"Angry chad:good points... I think it should be an individual choice. Don't you?"
I think you're missing my point. This isn't about individualism. I firmly believe that everyone has a right to think whatever they want, whenever they want. If you choose to beleive that magical flying dragons created the world, more power to you.
However, when someone tries to pass off such beliefs as fact, it should be questioned. Religion shouldn't be considered a taboo subject, protected from others who would point out its flaws. I think it's time that we as a society stopped tiptoeing around religious conversation, and started really questioning the validity of these beliefs.
If the President of The United States addressed the nation and claimed to receive guidance from a talking toaster, there would be cause for alarm. Why then is it ok with everyone that he has claimed to have personal conversations with an invisible, all-powerfull deity?
Been thinking about something u said Mich. You said you're weary about theings that happened at Mary Mount? What do you mean exactly? Mary Instilled morals and proper conduct in all her students what is there to be weary about?
Oh dear hetty, we're not about to enter a debate about why mary mount is best school in the world are we? That is not a debate we want to go into.
But I want to know. You met me at Mary Mount. our friendship was forged there, on grounds that we believed in the same things. Why has that changed?
ok... firstly our friendship was not based on things learnt at Mary Mount. it was based on our persona. We still believe in equality and freedom and all that jazz, well I do.
Ok, Mary Mount, I don't think that six 11yr olds terrorising a 12yr old just because she was diiferent in the name of religion was quite above par.
Neither do I think that, a bunch of Nuns telling me that have the right to ask questions, is above par.
That is not justified.
Not justidfied!!!! That girl was truamatised!!! she had to be taken out of school! How is that religious???
How dare you??? How dare you sit there and criticise everything I believe in. You sit there with the likes of Nic, Nikki and Angry Chad and judge me. You, mich, you. You are weak in your faith and you pass it off as something esle. How dare you?
i'm not judging you. weak? if waekness is defined as being able make up my own mind. Then so be it. and what gave you the right to judge that girl? because that what happended? you weighed her, measured and you found her wanting! We all did and for what? nothing!!!
Careful E, this is not just a simple debate anymore.
religion is not bondage. The collective is not the enemy. i am sorry you cant see that!
oh oh... Jen is right this has turned in to something else.
Ya brad, i think quit while you're ahead is what is needed here.
I think we missed that boat at comment number 19!
What are saying hetty?
All good things must come to an end. That was a choice and it was made
whose choice???
Mine... we don't seem to believe in the same things anymore. So why pretend.
how easily you chose
wow. I am gobsmacked that any debate in the blogosphere can end so abruptly with the termination of a 7 year friendship. I thought that religion was about tolerance and acceptance and understanding? Hetty, you show none of these qualities. I am sorry to appear to be picking on you but you have missed the boat and are drowning in your own religion. You cannot see that religion does not come at any cost. It needs to be weighed, measured and calculated. Are you telling me that you are only friends with people who agree with you all the time? What a shallow existence. A comfortable one, but shallow and hollow. You need to be questioned and accept debate and criticism. If you cannot do this you are ignorant to the ways of the world.
This is the last I will say about this topic: Stupid is as stupid does. Read my post.
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